Kylie 00:02 Welcome to the Proptech podcast! It’s Kylie Davis here, and I’m delighted to be your host as we explore the brave new world where technology and real estate collide. I passionately believe we need to create and grow a sense of community between the innovators and real estate agents, and sharing our stories is a great way to do that. The aim of each episode is to introduce listeners to a Proptech innovator who is pushing the boundaries of what’s possible, and explore the issue and challenges raised by the tech and how they can create amazing property experiences.
Kylie: 00:33 So, my guest in this episode is Justin Butterworth, a serial entrepreneur whose innovations have already changed how we rent property in Australia, and who, with his latest venture, “Snug” is working to shake us up all over again. So, let’s dive right in, Justin Butterworth, welcome to the show.
Justin Butterworth: 00:50 Hi Kylie, great to be here.
Kylie: 00:52 So, Justin, we always start off with our elevator pitch, what’s the problem that Snug solves?
Justin Butterworth: 00:57 Snug’s focused on making renting easier, and we’re focused with the disjointed leasing experience. So our mission is to help property managers find and then select their best tenant faster and easier using a single platform. And it’s really solving for the mismatching of renters, owners, and if you like, property managers, and we’re trying to streamline that, saving time, saving costs, and simplifying the software stack, and leading to a better rental selection outcome.
Kylie: 01:28 Right. Because it’s always struck me that, when you, a tenant or a would-be tenant, you get asked to fill in extraordinary amounts of detail about yourself, repeatedly, for the joy of having a 15 minute, if you’re lucky, inspection of a property, which is always presented with very little furniture or very… in kind of a very bare way. So, tenants seem to get the rough end of the stick on that.
Justin Butterworth: 01:56 Yeah, we’re trying to improve the leasing process. We think it should be a lot faster to lease a property, and part of it’s around the provision of information. It’s also about the digital systems to help property managers quickly process an application, and that’s everything from handling a portal lead, receiving an application, sharing details with an owner, being able to run a background check, checking an identity, references, and being able to make an offer and push into a digital lease. So, we’re bringing all of that, really 10 steps, 10 different online and offline applications, into one single system.
Justin Butterworth: 02:37 So, our mission is to really make the leasing process simpler, and we think that’s one of the key starting points to making renting easier and solving generally the problems around renting space.
Kylie: 02:52 Fantastic. So, Justin, this isn’t your first startup. Tell us the Justin Butterworth story.
Justin Butterworth: 02:58 Sure, look, I started my career as an economist, I worked for The Treasury, so I was forecasting GDP and CPI. And, I looked out the window in 1999, in my early 20s, and thought, “The Internet’s going to be a big thing.” And I still think it’s going to be a big thing, we’re just at the very early stages of the Internet journey. So, I built a little start-up called, “Rentahome,” which was focused on short term and holiday rental accommodation. It grew to about 30,000 properties, helping thousands of property managers manage their short term rental bookings on the platform.
Justin Butterworth: 03:33 And I sold that business to “Stayz,” which was part of Fairfax, in 2011, and stayed on to acquire [inaudible 00:03:43], a property management system, and then the whole group was sold to HomeAway, a NASDAQ listed company, where I worked for a number of years. So, after a 15, 16-year journey with four mergers and acquisitions, that little blank sheet of paper had gone all the way to, now, what is part of Expedia, and I just needed a break.
Justin Butterworth: 04:12 I had achieved all of my goals that I’d set out to achieve, and that little business appeared in Airbnb’s pitch deck on page nine. And I knew at the time that we were creating the next generation of the short term rental, holiday rental model, which was really about instant bookings, reviews, rich content, the ability to stay in unique places, in unique properties, and build really authentic experiences on a trusted platform.
Justin Butterworth: 04:46 And I guess after taking a year’s break, I came back to look at the long-term rental space and to ask myself, “How could I commit the second half of my career to improving housing in Australia, and how could I make renting easier?” Because I do believe that renting is the future of housing and we’re seeing a whole generation emerge who will rent probably for the rest of their lives.
Justin Butterworth: 05:17 And so, I guess, in this venture, I am very much purpose-driven, still focused on building great software for property managers. But, also, trying to bring the parties together to solve Australia’s number one housing issue, or number one issue, which is housing.
Kylie: 05:35 Yeah, no, it’s a very big, chewy issue. And there’s an awful lot that can be improved, both from the sides of tenants… on behalf of tenants and also for property mangers. So, how do you make the life of property managers easier?
Justin Butterworth: 05:50 Yeah, so, we built, “Snug Match,” which is leasing software. And, what it’s doing is it’s reducing the number of online, offline processes that property managers need to go through to lease a property. So, we’re collapsing the time and [inaudible 00:06:10] is literally the number of minutes to lease a property. So, when we broke out all of the steps, the systems and the time that it took, we thought, “Hey, there’s an opportunity to collapse the time by around 80 to 90% by bringing all of those steps onto a single streamlined platform, using some automation, some big data and some usability improvements.”
Justin Butterworth: 06:38 And so, what we’ve done is, we’ve created Snug Match, the leasing platform, which is really focused on improving the application process, so that property managers can find a faster path to leasing a property, and the benefits of reducing vacancy, generating revenue faster, having happier tenants and satisfying their landlords by finding the best tenant for the property, quicker, with less days on market.
Kylie: 07:09 Right. And so, are you able to say what the secret source is in that? How does it, apart from having a single platform to pull all of these elements together, does it do anything to match tenants to properties, or…?
Justin Butterworth: 07:24 Yeah, absolutely. So, we created a patent-pending, “Match Score,” which is an algorithm that takes the renter’s application and profile, it takes the property attributes, the market conditions, as well as the objective that the property manager sets for the owner, so it might be to maximise the rent, or maximise the occupancy, or maybe it’s to maximise the condition and minimise the wear-and-tear on the property.
Justin Butterworth: 07:55 And so it’s looking at everything from affordability, rent-to-income ratios, to rental references, to average tenure in past rental properties, or residential addresses, and the whole idea is to try and calculate a score that helps guide property managers to their best tenant. So it’s adding a little bit of data and science to the selection process, so property managers can feel more confident and move faster in making those decisions.
Kylie: 08:27 Fantastic.
Justin Butterworth: 08:28 We’ve also flipped the process round, so we re-thought the journey, and so, it’s kind of common practise, the property gets shown, application forms are handed out, and you then collate, compare, chase information as a property manager. We said, “Well, actually, let’s flip that round, what if tenants were to get prepared and pre-qualified, prior to the viewing, and so when they arrive, they can say, ‘I love it, I’ll lease it!’ And that transaction then becomes something that you can consummate, even potentially at the property.”
Justin Butterworth: 09:06 So, we believe that, if we can get the time to lease a property down to within 30 minutes, then we’ve created a trusted transaction platform that allows the property manager and the tenant to, essentially, close at the viewing. Or, at least with a conditional offer. So, it’s really changing, not only… It’s structuring the process, and it’s structuring the decision making, and it’s also creating a seamless, trusted transaction platform to enable the parties to execute.
Kylie: 09:39 I love this idea, I think it’s fantastic, and very much needed. But, one of the things that Snug is known a lot for is your efforts to change the bond system with BondCover. Where’re you up to with that? That’s very different to Snug Match. But, is that still a thing?
Justin Butterworth: 09:59 Absolutely, so, we’re a transformer, we’re not a disrupter. And, when we mapped the rental journey two and a half years ago, when we’re kicking off the business, we said, “Oh, that’s interesting, that’s $4 billion worth of rental bond, cash, held by state governments. Let’s analyse that.”
Justin Butterworth: 10:19 Because it takes quite a bit of time to lodge a bond, release it or claim it, so that was time for a property manager. And we also thought, “Wow, one in three Australians who rent, really they’re untrustworthy.” So, we did analysis on millions of bonds, and we actually found that the risks were very, very, very small, quite contained to about five key things. And we were almost first in the world to announce a digital, a cashless bond, BondCover. And not wanting to be a disruptor, we walked into state government departments and said, “Hey, we’re from Snug, we’re here to make renting easier. These are the facts around bonds, and we’d love to offer a bond for just three to 5% of the face value, so for $2000, a bond somewhere around $66.”
Justin Butterworth: 11:20 And, really, the mission was to hand back billions in cash to renters, but also make the process seamless for property managers as part of our mission to streamline leasing. And so, unfortunately, there was resistance to that innovation and that change. But, Kylie, I guess, like driverless cars, if you say, “autonomous vehicle” three times, eventually you’ll say, “Oh, look, there goes a driverless car.” So, part of it’s creating the awareness, the understanding, the acceptance, and even the desire to make that change. And, it’s just a matter of time.
Justin Butterworth: 12:02 So, to answer your question, “Where are we?” with that. So, we’ve parked BondCover given the resistance, so we’d spent 12 months and close to $1 million trying to get that concept through, and start-ups across the world copycatted and launched in different countries, and we will be successful in getting BondCover through because it’s an inherently good product.
Justin Butterworth: 12:32 It gives consumers choice, it gives them their cash back, and it creates an efficiency solution for property managers. So, we will relaunch it, and thankfully, when we do have another go, we’ll have hundreds of thousands of renters on our platform supporting it. We’ll have hundreds of agents that use our software that will be willing to support it, to distribute it and accept it. So I can’t give you an exact date, but we did also revisit the regulatory framework in which the product sat, and I guess having the benefit of letting it marinate for two years and us cogitate, we’re able to find a new path forward. And so, yeah, we’re quietly preparing for BondCover Mark II.
Kylie: 13:33 Yep.
Justin Butterworth: 13:34 And, unlike the last time, we won’t take our foot off the gas and we will pin our ears back and deliver it, because we know the market wants it.
Kylie: 13:41 Yep. Absolutely. So we heard at the REI New South Wales lunch where we discussed innovation versus legislation, that government has a five-year timeline for changing legislation, and we know that there’s a very big bond… like the bond system is a very big piece of bureaucracy that exists in every state, so I wish you the best of luck in changing that.
Justin Butterworth: 14:09 Thank you. Well, I guess we found a new path which works in the current regulatory environment, so for us, there is no resistance. We [inaudible 00:14:21] advice and we considered taking one of the state governments to court, to achieve a judicial declaration, and to have it proven as being permitted, and it was, and we had multiple legal advice on it, but it will happen, and like all good things, who would’ve thought that we would drive around in a private vehicle, sitting in the backseat, à la Uber, or that we would’ve had a stranger staying in our spare bedroom. And, one day, there will be driverless cars, and there will be cashless bonds.
Kylie: 14:55 Fantastic, okay. Well, I guess as my dad says, “There’s more than one way to skin a cat,” so, best of luck with that.
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Kylie: 16:00 Let’s talk about the general rental experience though, because I’m really fascinated with the work that Snug Match is doing, and this whole approach, which is a real economists approach, I guess, of analysing what’s wrong with the way that we’re… the tenants and property managers are required to do business at the moment. But what do you see are the key pain points with the rental experience?
Justin Butterworth: 16:25 Yeah, well, I think if I was to look at the rental market today, compared to where we kicked off, the great news is that it’s getting much, much better. And it’s getting better for three reasons: One is, rental reform has kicked off, and I think state governments are recognising that there are… There’s a generation, there’s an audience that are renting for a lot longer, and so we’ve seen everything from the flexibility around pets and picture hooks and minor modifications come into rental regulations.
Justin Butterworth: 17:00 And we’ve also seen limitations around rent increases and notice periods to try and reduce the uncertainty and the stress. And I think we’ve seen on the property manager side, adoption of great technology which is making it easier to rent, whether it’s the leasing process like Snug Match, or whether it’s around repairs or maintenance, or accessing statements or communicating with property managers, so property managers are actually starting to lift their service capabilities, if you like. And I think the third thing is the supply in the market has changed, so there’s a little bit more vacancy and choice, and so that sort of frenetic queuing for properties that made it so stressful for renters, and perhaps three to five years ago, has somewhat abated.
Justin Butterworth: 17:56 So, I think, for tenants, the world has much improved. But, I think at the heart of it is really the desire to have housing security, and, when we look at renting, part of it’s getting into the property, part of it is how you live within the property, and it’s also how you vacate a property. And, perhaps I can share with you a bigger concept and a bigger vision, which is: when we look at homeownership, we see that it’s really made up of home and ownership, and the home part is around personalization and security, and credibility in the community.
Justin Butterworth: 18:42 And as a renter, how do you then access the equivalent of home? And at Snug, we believe that everyone does deserve a home, and our mission is to make renting easier so that renters have homes, too. And so, it’s things like knowing when your lease expires, how can you extend it reasonably, will your repairs and maintenance be resolved without retribution? So those sorts of things we’re thinking about. So yeah, so whether your repairs and maintenance can be attended to without retribution, I think around the customer experience, for the first time, renters are being, I guess, considered in the market as ‘customers’. And property managers are starting to invest in technology and look at how do you they attract the best renters for their landlords?
Justin Butterworth: 19:47 And I think, when I look at the property management space, it’s very much a process-driven space. You’ve got a management agreement, a tenancy agreement, you’ve got licencing and regs sitting above you, and you’ve also got your boss and your employment agreement. And so property managers that are attracted to this workspace follow process, and they’re very good at it. And so, in that world, being able to innovate, to change the model, is challenging to really the core attributes of being a great property manager.
Justin Butterworth: 20:29 And, as you mentioned like as an economist, I look at the market and ask myself, “How can you get a competitive advantage in this sort of market?” One options just to change the price of something, like the rental price, but there are other levers in delivering a product or a service that property managers can play with to attract great tenants and better service their landlords. So it might be around the terms of a lease, it might be around the inclusions, and so it’s really interesting seeing the market only adjust around price, rather than these other dimensions.
Kylie: 21:14 It’s quite strange, isn’t it? And I’ve always felt… Like, we know that moving is one of the most stressful things you can do, and [inaudible 00:21:22] tenants are required to do it kind of almost on at least an annual basis in lots of instances, or there’s the threat of needing to pack up and move again, every time a lease is due, which really does affect your sense of home and where you belong, I guess. Is there stuff in that space that you’re seeing?
Justin Butterworth: 21:46 Yeah, absolutely. So, 20% of renters will churn in the first year, and another 20% in the second year, and then it forms a sort of long-tail, out to eight to 10 years, and even those that might rent for decades in a property, perhaps if it’s owned by [inaudible 00:22:04] Super Fund. And so, we think that there are ways to build property management, oh, edit, so we think there are ways for property managers to reconsider their property management business and service, to almost create a human-centred design, which is…
Kylie: 22:27 Oh! Stop!
Justin Butterworth: 22:31 Yeah, that’s a bit of a buzzword. Bit of a buzzword.
Kylie: 22:31 No, I love it. No, I love it.
Justin Butterworth: 22:31 But, how do you create an experience that actually brings the landlord and tenant together? So, for example, if you had a self-managed Super Fund landlord, how do you structure a management agreement and a fee service that allows you to write a multi-year lease using Snug Match to find and select a great tenant for a three-year period, for example? And that’s a great outcome for tenants, it’s a great outcome for landlords. It also locks in your revenue base over a three year period, and diversifies the profile of your rent role and secures your customer base and your revenue.
Justin Butterworth: 23:10 So, I think there’s some really exciting opportunities for property managers to re-think their business model, and how they present their services to customers on both sides.
Kylie: 23:22 And I love this idea of making it human-centred and putting the people at the centre. I know that a lot of the problems that I see in property management are that we put process over people, and that’s a hard thing to do… Like, if you’re going to do that, then price is always going to be the value that gets negotiated on, and we still have these systems in place where we treat the majority of tenants like they’re something out of a “he died with a falafel in his hand,” kind of share house, uni situation, when the research that I do at CoreLogic shows that the majority of tenants are probably in a couple or a family unit, earning over 120,000. They’re normal Australians who are just wanting a place to call home. It’s just that they can’t afford to buy it in many instances just yet.
Kylie: 24:13 So, I love this idea of making humans the centre of the experience, rather than the rental process the centre of the experience.
Justin Butterworth: 24:23 Absolutely. And, I think the housing system as we look at it is really becoming less suited to the way we live and work, and I’ll sort of expand on this because this is really our thesis for the next generation of housing model. And, I guess I take myself back to ’99, where I re-imagined holiday and short term rental. In this business at Snug, we’re seeing a transformation of the housing system. And I guess if you think of it in this way that homeownership, it’s a premium product, and it’s an expensive subscription. If you’ve got $100,000 and you’ve got a deposit if you can sign a 25-year mortgage agreement or… you can then get into homeownership.
Justin Butterworth: 25:11 And, once you’re in, it’s got high transaction costs, it’s fairly inflexible. But, as we talked earlier, you can personalise, you’ve got credibility in the community, you’ve got security around price increases and vacates, you leave on your own terms. And then, from an ownership perspective, you get access to regular savings to leverage and a capital gains free, tax-free environment to create wealth.
Kylie: 25:41 Yeah.
Justin Butterworth: 25:41 And, with a third of Australians renting, there are many that are not able to access the homeownership model, the subscription model. And, at the other end, we’ve got this very basic subscription, which is called a “residential tenancy agreement,” which is the minimum standard. So, we look at the market as having two options: a basic standard for renting, or a premium exclusive subscription, which is a 25-year mortgage.
Justin Butterworth: 26:14 And so, we look at that and we say, “Well, so if you can’t get into homeownership, you can’t get into Australia’s retirement system,” which is really about having your home and topping it up with your pension. And we’re just starting to see the very first signs of a genuine second class of young Australian’s who haven’t had the ability to own a home, so they have suffered from housing insecurity. They’ve suffered from lack of wealth creation through leverage and capital gains free. And so, when we look at that, we ask ourselves, “Well, how do we unbundle this good homeownership, and deliver home and ownership?”
Justin Butterworth: 26:59 Because when you enter homeownership, you’re really making a compromise around your lifestyle and your investment decision. So, “I want to live by the beach, but I also want to invest in blue-chip property, and that means I end up being in the outer suburbs with a plunge pool.”
Kylie: 27:16 Yep.
Justin Butterworth: 27:18 And so, we’re looking at that saying, “How do we unbundle homeownership and deliver home and ownership as a subscription, so you can live where you love, and invest where it matters?” What if we were to decouple it so that you could sign a multi-year lease and live like a homeowner, but invest in a new way, in a diversified fractional way to get exposure, and create wealth through property?
Justin Butterworth: 27:47 So, at Snug, we think the future housing model will be a subscription model, which has multi-year leases and collected investment at its core. And, we might even look back in 25 years, the next generation and say, “Wow, they used to be just two models. You could either get a minimum standard and rent or if you were lucky to get into homeownership, there was that option.”
Justin Butterworth: 28:14 But maybe like, the youth that grow up subscribing to music with Spotify, or using cars on-demand with Uber, and we hope that the next generation will say, “I choose to subscribe to housing on Snug.”
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Kylie: 29:41 So, I’m fascinated by this idea. Tell me a bit more about it, what would it look like?
Justin Butterworth: 29:48 Yeah, so I think it looks like giving people multi-year leases with homeowner like benefits. And so, those were some of the things that we chatted earlier about price and security and personalization. And giving those that subscribe to, if you like, the leasing component, access to ownership through a fractionalized investment vehicle. So, it means that you can invest in property from $25 a week, let’s say, in a diversified, strategic, professionally managed way.
Kylie: 30:30 Would that be something like a “BrickX”? Or would it be something that we’re seeing some of those fractional initiate models now? Or is it something completely different?
Justin Butterworth: 30:40 Yeah, so without talking to a particular brand, what I would say is it looks like micro-investment in a diversified way. So, rather than saving up for nine years and being out of the housing market, and then trying to buy 100% of one property, what if you could start today by investing, just from $25 a week?
Justin Butterworth: 31:05 So, one of the reasons that we were really looking to unlock bonds with the bond cover product is, we would love to say to renters, “Click here to get a $66 bond,” or however it’s priced for your particular property, but “get a low-cost bond, and why don’t you put your capital into our investment collective? Own property today, and add to it on a weekly basis.” All of a sudden, you’re on the path to ownership.
Justin Butterworth: 31:38 And I think, for property managers out there, they look at their portfolios as a client base of landlords. But, what they have is their future clients who are tenants, renters wanting to get into the ownership model. And it really repositions property management businesses from being landlord centric to delivering a housing solution that’s a better subscription product with better leases and better paths to ownership.
Kylie: 32:11 Fantastic. I love this idea, you’ve kind of blown me away. I’m trying to get my brain around it. So, what are some of the challenges that you’re going to face in doing this, Justin?
Justin Butterworth: 32:21 Maybe I could share the analogy, which is, “Just because you might move jobs doesn’t mean that you should change your investment strategy,” or your Super Fund. So, why do we do it with homeownership? So, just because you moved homes, you move both your lifestyle and your investment strategy. We’re trying to just unbundle it so that you can make two optimal decisions, rather than compromise around affordability.
Justin Butterworth: 32:49 So, one of the biggest challenges that Snug might face… So, Kylie, technology is the easy part of this business. But, for us, balancing delivering a solution for today’s property managers, as well as a product and an opportunity for the future generation, just balancing now versus later, is one of the challenges that we face as a business to stagger the products into the market, as well as the Snug story. And I think, like any big idea, it might sound a little crazy at first, it’s about growing the awareness and the acceptance, and the desire to head on that journey.
Justin Butterworth: 33:37 And so, the approach that we’ve been taking is, using this model called, “Play Bigger,” I recommend the book for anyone who’s interested. And what it’s about is really shining a light on today’s model and surfacing the problems around it, which is the inflexibility, the high cost, the stamp [inaudible 00:33:57] around homeownership. I mean, if you were to buy and sell three times in your life, you would give away 18% of your after-tax earnings. And you’ll probably live in a house that’s too big, too small, the wrong shape, size, colour or location.
Justin Butterworth: 34:13 And so, that’s shining a light on homeownership as a model which is inflexible and high cost. And then, again, we use this model where we sort of then talk about the future opportunity, which is live where you love and invest where it matters, subscribe to housing on a weekly basis. You create a sense of hope and opportunity and a path forward.
Justin Butterworth: 34:41 So, it’s a big challenge. Part of it is just in our DNA to have the greatest [inaudible 00:34:46] dream realised, owning your own home. But, we think by presenting choice and an alternative for those that haven’t had the choice to get into homeownership, we hope this will present a really feasible and accessible option.
Kylie: 35:07 I think it’s fantastic, Justin, I love it for a couple of reasons. I love it because there is a big generational change coming down the pipe of homeownership, we saw that in the CoreLogic Housing Affordability Report that came out again just recently. We know that the current generation of millennials coming through are probably only going to be able to afford a property using the current model of property ownership when their parents die and they get their parents property in the will, which they can then either live in or sell and invest in the market.
Kylie: 35:46 So, we’re seeing a lot of really delayed property ownership, going to happen if we insist on keep doing things the way we’re doing… But, the other thing I love about it, too, is that I’ve long been an advocate for this idea that real estate agents have, at their core, a database of customers that are multi-faceted and that want to use a trusted advisor who can guide them through finding home, and that can be a seller or a buyer or a tenant or a landlord.
Kylie: 36:19 But, as an industry, we focus traditionally on just sellers and sort of landlords a little bit less. So, I love this idea that, suddenly, the model that you’re proposing has all of these repercussions around improving the value of your tenancy database and also, showing how tenants can become owners a lot faster. So, it sounds fantastic.
Justin Butterworth: 36:44 Yeah, the opportunity for property managers is to really think about, and real estate businesses, how do they deliver a lifetime housing solution to attract and retain their customer over their lifetime of housing? And how can they partner with, and what does the opportunity look like, working with a player like Snug, which is here to transform a model and work with the incumbent businesses? These are people that love property, that are out and about with the capacity to manage properties and service them.
Justin Butterworth: 37:21 And so, there’s the opportunity to, essentially, imbed these products around better matching digital bonds and a new path to homeownership to deliver a subscription lifetime housing solution to both their tenants and their landlords as well, on both sides.
Kylie: 37:42 Fantastic. So how big is this as a market opportunity for Snug, Justin?
Justin Butterworth: 37:47 Yeah, it’s really interesting, so if you look at the BondCover opportunity as a $4 billion opportunity, I think the Snug match solution is a $60 billion opportunity, which is a gross, gross rent that’s processed. And our vision for subscription homeownership, it’s a $7 trillion opportunity, which is effectively Australia’s residential property market. And, we just ask ourselves, “In 50 years, will people subscribe to housing and own a fractional portfolio of residential property and live where they live and invest where it matters?”
Kylie: 38:29 Fantastic. Well, look, we’re going to have to leave it there because we could talk forever on this. I love how your brain works, Justin, and I love all of the thinking that you’ve put into these products and the problems. It’s truly inspiring. And I think what we need to be doing as an industry is not thinking, “Oh, that will never work,” but think about, “Well, how could that work?” And start to really embrace some of the possibilities around it.
Kylie: 38:53 So, thank you so much for sharing this exciting new direction that Snug’s going in, and all the best to Snug and Snug Match and this new subscription model that you’re running.
Justin Butterworth: 39:06 Absolute pleasure. Thanks, Kylie, for having me today, and if your listeners would like to jump onto snug.com and check out what we’re doing today.
Kylie: 39:13 We will include all the details in the show notes. Thanks so much for joining us.
Justin Butterworth: 39:20 Thanks, Kylie, it’s been an absolute pleasure.
Kylie: 39:21 So, that was Justin Butterworth, founder of Snug, which is turning our thinking about tenancy and homeownership upside-down. Justin with his background as an economist is a great example of the fresh thinking that’s driving innovation in real estate, and turning long-held truths about how we do things on their heads. And, in reality, the experiences that tenants have are well overdue for an overhaul. Research that I did while I was back at CoreLogic showed that just 36% of tenants had good or excellent experiences with their real estate agent, which is extraordinarily damaging, while the latest studies on housing affordability show that it is becoming increasingly out of reach for an entire generation, so our children and our children’s children.
Kylie: 40:05 Justin’s thinking is truly transformative, and it’s a bit radical, let’s face it. But, we really need radical thinkers in real estate. So, check out Snug. We’ve included their contact details in the show notes below, and if you’re a tenant or a property manager that has used one of the Snug products, we’d love to hear about your experiences.
Kylie: 40:24 So, now, if yoButteru’ve enjoyed this episode of the Proptech podcast, we would really love you to tell your friends or drop me a line, via either email, LinkedIn, or our Facebook page. And you can follow this podcast on Spotify, and we’re now also on Google. So, I’d like to thank my audio support, Charlie Hollands and the fabulous Jill Escudero, and our sponsors Beepo, making outsourcing easy, and HomePrezzo, creating marketing content from your data. So, thanks everyone! Until next week, keep on PropTeching.
Content marketing strategist, researcher, journalist and presenter specialising in the real estate industry. I'm passionate about proptech, digital disruption and all things property, big data, leadership and entrepreneurial ideas, have an MBA and specialise in social and digital media content creation and automation.